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I attempted to make pizza with King Arthur 00 Pizza flour using their recipe on the back of the bag. The recipe was called "Detroit Style Pizza". I have no idea what that is but I had hoped it would make 1-12" pizza if I halved the recipe. It did not. Also, this was my first attempt at homemade pizza dough. It is not pretty and way too crispy. But for better or for worse here it is.

Next up, I made another 123 sourdough bread in a bread pan. My additions were: milk powder,regular Hershey's cocoa powder, and maple syrup. The liquid was a Guiness stout. The flour as mostly all purpose, with 20g rye, 10g wholewheat, and 30g bread flour.

Here's the recipe:

100g starter

200g Guiness beer

300g Flour (as said above)

2T of hershey's cocoa powder (regular kind)

1T milk powder

1T maple syrup

1tsp of salt

I mixed it all together for a bit, maybe 5 minutes. Then I let it sit out for an hour and then popped it into the fridge over night. This morning about 9am, I took it out and let it warm up. at 10am I did a lamination with it. Since I could stretch it thin, I shaped it and left it to rise in the baking tin. I then baked it at 350F for 10 minutes and then at 325F for 40 more minutes. I brushed butter on it at the 30 minute mark. My pans are dark, so I have to bake at a lower temperature. The internal temperature was 201F.

The bread is soft, with a light chocolatey flavor. It was not overly sour as it as last time when I made a plain white bread with a Yuengling lager. I'm guessing the "smooth" on the label means something? I don't know anything about beer. All I know is that I hope my father in law likes the other beers I had bought since I don't drink. I did find a non-alcoholic Guiness black label on the shelf, but I was unsure if it would perform the same or not.

So far the bread is good, but I think I'll leave the pizza part up to Dominoes for now since I may have gotten myself into a baking frenzy starting next week. Our church is having a fall festival and I volunteered to help them out if they wanted bake sale items for their pumpkin patch.I casually mentioned 3 dozen muffins and cookies. I'm thrilled they want some samples but also super nervous at the same time. Either way this will be a good way to test out if there is actually a demand for non-cake mix muffins in my area.

In other news, I've been working on a garden box and it's almost done. As soon as hubby puts the last of the supports in I'll order the compost/dirt from a local place that delivers. My kids want to plant sunflowers and other colorful flowers. I'm going to put veggies on my side, and being that I'm in zone 9 means I can still plant beans, corn, tomatoes, and possibly little squash if the weather stays warm this year. the kids are excited to see broccoli trees growing too. I try to grow interesting looking things, so I'm on the hunt for long eggplant and sesame seeds. One year we grew yard-long beans and we didn't harvest them soon enough. The kids ran around with "dreadlocks" on their heads. :D

I‘ve been looking for a way to try out the Monheim Salt-sour process for a while, as I've been researching ways to get complex rye flavors without the pain of a 3-fold Detmolder. It's described as having a good aroma and being "almost as good" as a full detmold. And we recently had the perfect weather for it in Tucson: 90s in the day and 70s at night  The Salzsauer process is unusual in that it adds salt to the elaboration of the rye at 2% This is similar to what classic French bakers sometimes do with pain-au-levain in warm weather; or it might be thought of as a "rye pate fermentée". Because of the salt, the souring takes longer (18-24h) with the trade off of a longer period of stability.  Also due to the salt, one requires 10% of the flour in the inoculation (i.e. 20% seed starter if its 100% hydration, instead of a more typical 5% or 10%.). 

So I decided to adapt Hamelman's 70% Rye with Rye Chop Soaker from Bread to this method. For this riff I subbed out whole rye flour for the medium, and I substituted a Monheim Salzsauer process for the one-stage Detmolder. But--with 35% whole rye flour, 30% whole wheat flour 35% rye chops--should this be called a Mischbrot? Despite the fact it's almost 50% wheat (if you count the chops as an addition rather than a flour), it really doesn't have the smooth-grey color or texture of typical Mischbrot. Not that surprising given it's 100% whole grain including chops. Moreover, it tastes and looks quite similar to volkornbrot . So I'm sticking with the  Schwarzbrot label .

 Formula:

Process:

Build the rye sour, with final elaboration 18-24h prior to baking, going from 95F down to low 70Fs over the range.  Because I bake infrequently, with a rye starter in the fridge, I first built it out at 1:2:2 an extra 12 hours earlier to get the ripe 36g inoculation needed for the final Salzsauer. Note that I took out an extra 9g for storage at the end of the first-build, rather than the usual second build, because I didn't want my storage chef to be salted. (If you have 36g active rye starter, jump right to the salzsauer, as this is in theory a one-step process.) 

Using 113F water in the final build will let things start at DT 95F snd gradually decrease. Let the final sour ferment for 18-24h until it smells good. (I left it outside in the 96F desert afternoon and it had dropped to 73F by next morning, at which point I brought it in for the remainder.) The literature says start 30-35C and drop to 20-25C.

Soak the rye chops about 6 hours prior. I used my coffee grinder to approximate chops, but it was closer to a mix of meal and chops. I used a cold soak with 2% salt. (If any water evaporates, add it in later.)

Mix the dough. It's 70% rye, no kneading needed. However, note the 78% hydration in the formula is the low end. Since it's rye you'll likely need to add lots more water to get the texture to where it's like clay that holds together but is loose enough it can expand.  In my case it took tons more water than stated, so was more of a bassinage. It's going into a loaf pan, don't worry about over-doing the hydration. I used 0.6% IDY, but I'm not sure it's needed. (I thought it interesting I had a higher percentage of salt in the levain than the final overall bread!)

Bulk ferment 30 minutes (with IDY). Proof in floured loaf pans 60m. No scoring of any kind needed. 

Bake 450F covered for 15m then drop heat to 410F or lower to finish for 40-60 minutes until it sounds evenly resonant (rather than a dull thud) when tapped on all sides and across the bottom. Take out of the pan for the last 15 minutes or so to dry out the sides. Cure for at least 24h covered in a towel before slicing. Peak flavor was about 3 days in.

Comments:

• I'm now a fan of the Salzsauer process and will try it with other ryes. As advertised, it had a rich aroma together with a nice balanced sour flavor. I liked that it didn't take much fuss, just leave it out a day ahead of time. This would be great if you wanted to set things up on Friday to bake on a Sunday. I'm skeptical on how important the 95F > 70F is. That was fine this time, and the 95F isn't hard to achieve with hot water. But cooling it might prove a problem much of the year in my climate. The 1-step Detmold supposedly benefits from this same temperature drop to balance the lactic and acetic; but plenty of people just ferment 16-18h at 77F with 5% or 10% ASG; so I'm tempted to just leave it on the counter willy-nilly for 24h and see what happens.
  And do you really need the full 2% salt? I'm curious what exactly the salt does to the yeasts and enzymes-- I was surprised the salt-sour didn't have--for want of a better word--the neutral flavor or smell of a wheat pate fermentée. It was a real sour. And on first glance the odor and flavor did seem better--but I'll need to do more experiments. 
  Because I don't keep such large quantities of active starter, I ended up needing to use 2-stages anyway, so maybe a better comparison is versus 2-stage Detmold process that I also like a lot.  That one requires more temperature control though, whereas this just gradually falls.
• The bread itself is a solid basic German rye!  Recommended, going into rotation. Aroma very nice around day 3, the flavor was sour but mellow, which surprised me given the 35% pre-fermented flour. The soaked chops were very subtle, mostly adding texture.  I couldn't taste the wheat, but I think it took the edge off of the sourness, making the bread somewhat more adaptable than a volkornbrot.
• I think DSnyder's nailed the flavor: "The crust was firm but not hard. The crumb was soft and moist but slightly crumbly and less dense than I expected. The aroma is powerful with rye, yet the flavor is relatively mild. It is rye with no distinctive whole wheat tones, yet the whole wheat must have mellowed the rye flavor. There is a sweet note to the aftertaste. This bread has lots of character."
• This formula is a good “base” recipe to explore German mixed ryes.  Using medium rye instead of whole would make a more standard graubrot / hausbrot. Taking out the wheat entirely would make a volkornbrot. Add flax or sunflower seeds at will. Add scald at will. For instance, I think Kellner’s  Sauerland Schwarzbrot is just a complicated version of the same formula? Unless I'm mistaken, that's even the monheim  sauersalz they're calling a "sponge" along with a bunch of other tricks? This one's a lot simpler though! 

 crumb very similar to volkornbrot

Normally the loaves I record here are the successful one.  There are plenty of so-so loaves that don't offer too much to dwell on worth writing about.  And then there are the total disaster loaves.

This one falls in that category.  It is a buckwheat porridge loaf.  I think I over loaded it with porridge and ended up with a loaf a bit too much on the wet side.  It was manageable enough ti shape, but it must have seeped moisture while doing the final cols proof in the banneton because when I went to turn it out to bake, it was not just a little stuck but totally adhered to the banneton.  I had to scoop it out with a dough scraper!  So I just dumped the dough mess on the hot stone, covered it and hoped for something with a shape.

Fortunately it kept somewhat of a shape and rose alright.  It actually has a very nice soft airy crumb.  This is not the first time something like this has happened to me, and I imagine others have experienced this as well.  Sometimes those total mess loaves, if you can manage to get them into and out of the oven, can actually be quite nice bread, if lacking shape and beauty.  So here's to ugly bread that still tastes good!

I have not been very active here in many years, posting only occasionally in reply to member questions, and even more rarely to my own blog.  Perhaps so much so that I may even appear to only talk the talk.  I decided today that I should, if not change that, at least speak into the silence a little bit.  So, I will tell you of  my latest bake.

This is a very straight forward 68% white sourdough.  The last year or two I have adopted/adapted the 3-stage approach of Danni3113, for which you can find the basics here.  The principal adaptation I use is to refrigerate the completed starter after the last feed, then on dough making day I pull it out early, give it a stir, and wait till it gets "jiggly" to start my dough.  This adapts better to my schedule.

I also bake in dutch ovens because my oven uses so much top heat that crusts turn black long before the loaves are finished.  I bake covered for 15-18 minutes, then finish uncovered for 10-12 minutes, to center temp of +/-205F.  Here are today's results (crumb shot when available).

and

Edit:  Added Crumb Shot

Just saying...  (Am I boasting?  Of course!  Don't we all?)

Still baking happy!
OldWoodenSpoon

Hello, friends.

My new rye sour is taking to the rye flour like a horse to water in the desert! This means a "New York" Jewish Sour Rye bake no later than tomorrow. The formula I selected comes after a visit to my Pisani  (Villager) Island 66 blog page. From there I was directed right back here. I landed at everybody's friend, and a fine baker David Snyder's blog. 

For this exercise (performance) I will attempt David Snyder's, Jewish Sour Rye. Which is based on Greenstein's formula. Boy that was a lot of acknowledgements! 

Onwards.

This proformance will be done as it happens, live without a net. For better or worse, success or failure that is my way. Smile...

Phase 1

The rye sour.

Earlier this year, Tony (CalBeachBaker) posted a bread made with einkorn flour.  I modified the recipe a tad, and this is my second attempt (these bakes were my first experience with einkorn).

For the levain, I mixed 3 grams of sourdough starter, 72 grams of einkorn flour, and 54 grams of water.  There is a soaker, and for that I mixed 48 grams of rye chops, 48 grams of sesame seeds, 120 grams of boiling water, and 2 grams of salt.  The levain and soaker sat overnight covered at room temperature.

After about twelve hours, it was time to combine the final dough ingredients.  These were 407 grams of einkorn, 329 grams of water, 8 grams of salt, and all of the levain and soaker.  I mixed by hand using a small plastic scraper, and the components came together fairly easily.  Three stretch-and-fold sessions spaced thirty minutes apart followed, and then the dough sat for a total bulk fermentation of two hours and ten minutes.

For those unfamiliar with einkorn, perhaps a word or two.  If you think rye is sticky, you haven't worked with einkorn, which is super sticky.  It also has no gluten strength, doesn't rise, and has no structure for shaping.  If some of you with einkorn experience can chime in with some tips or comments, that would be very much appreciated.

After dumping the dough onto a floured countertop, I shaped (sort of) by using a scraper to flop the dough onto itself and let it sit for five minutes.  Then I used the scraper and a bench knife to get underneath the mass of dough and plop it into a 9"x5" loaf pan that had been lined with parchment paper.  I smoothed the top of the dough with a spatula, and the loaf pan went into a plastic bag.  The proofing phase lasted about an hour and forty minutes, during which time I saw no rising to speak of, but the dough did settle nicely in the loaf pan.

Eventually I put the loaf pan into a 450F oven that has pie pans filled with lava rocks for steam, and the bake lasted forty-five minutes.  Watching the loaf expand during the bake was neat.

Here is the loaf, and you can see where the dough rose from its level at the start of the bake until the end.

The crust is tender, and the crumb is chewy with a nice flavor.

Given the slightly gummy center evident at the very bottom of the loaf, I think the next time the bake will be perhaps five minutes longer, but everything else seemed to go well.

Einkorn is one of the ancient grains, and I wanted to give it a try.  Glad I did, and there will be more bakes with it.

Happy baking.

Ted

   I made the same bread about a year ago to bring to my Cousin’s house for the Jewish New Year.  It was a big hit and I really liked the malty flavor the Guinness imparts on the overall bread.  It doesn’t taste like beer but you can definitely taste the underlying flavor.  I don’t really like beer that much and I definitely would not be caught dead drinking a motor oil type beer like Guinness but it’s my favorite one to add to bread.

A double build was used for the levain but you could easily just do one build if you desire.

Last time I made one large miche but I decided to give one away to a co-worker so I made 2 smaller loaves.

I like to keep the potatoes rustic so you can actually see some of the chunks in the crumb shot which I prefer.  The whole wheat and rye were both freshly milled from Barton Springs Mill berries and sifted and milled twice for a high extraction flour.  The spelt was also milled with my Mockmill 200 and only sifted once as I don’t find any need to do 2 sifts and mill passes with Spelt.

Just like the previous bake, the crumb was nice and open and the crust was deep and dark  and flavorful.  Give this one a try and you won’t be disappointed.

Formula

Levain Directions Build 1

Mix all the levain ingredients for build one (including the seed starter) together for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 6-7 hours or until the starter has almost doubled.  I used my proofer set at 76 degrees so it took around 5 hours for me.

Levain Directions Build 2

Add in the flour and water as indicated and mix until incorporated by hand.  Cover and let sit another 3-5 hours until doubled and you should see plenty of activity.

Either use in the main dough immediately or refrigerate for up to 1 day before using.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flour and Guinness together in your mixer or by hand until it just starts to come together, maybe about 1 minute.  Let it rest in your work bowl covered for 20-30 minutes.  After 30 minutes or so  add the salt, starter (cut into about 7-8 pieces),  olive oil, honey, potatoes and mix on low for 5 minutes.   Note: If you are using the Ankarsrum mixer like I do, add your water to the bowl first then add in the flour and potatoes.  After your autolyse add in the starter, salt, honey  and olive oil and mix on low to medium low for 15-20 minutes.

Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 1.5 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours or if using a proofer set at 80 degrees for one hour.  Remove the dough and shape as desired and cover with a moist tea towel or plastic wrap Sprayed with cooking spray and let rise at room temperature for 1 1/2 – 2 hours.  (I use my proofer set at 80 F and it takes about 1 hour to 1.5 hours).

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 500 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

After 1 minute lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for around 35 minutes or until the breads are nice and brown and have an internal temperature around 200-210 F.  Note: if making a Miche lower the temperature to 435 F and bake for close to an hour or until the internal temperature is 200-205 F.

Take the bread(s) out of the oven when done and let them cool on a bakers rack for as long as you can resist.

This morning i have done a fast bake with a 1 hour bulk fermentation time This dough is made from Fresh Milled Red Wheat, Millers 1100 Bakers Flour and Lupin Flakes from the Lupin Coi also used some of the sour dough starter that is kept in the fridge left overs after revival feeds to bring the starter amount back to a manageable size. I calculate that as half flour half water and adjust my formula to accommodate that. The advantage is of course much less waste as well as flavours that have been generated in the prolonged fermentation. In this instance the S/D starter isnt being used for the doughs fermentation that's where the added yeast is employed and the reason this is a fast dough. A hybrid in fact. the new mixer is allowing me to make larger doughs, juggling the oven is what's needed now.     

Hi all,

I need to know how to calculate flour and water weight, based on total dough weight.

if I need to mix up 1 kg of dough @ 65% hydration, how do I get there.  At this point I just guess, do the math and adjust my numbers until I get there.  Not efficient at all 🥴

Thank you!

One of my favorite wheat to use is Durum which I usually mill myself but since I was out of Durum berries I used some packaged Italian flour my wife had purchased for my pizza making, Semola Rimacinata Durum which is a very fine milled flour.

I did mill some Yecoar Rojo whole wheat from Barton Springs Mill and sifted twice to produce a high extraction flour. I added some freshly made ricotta cheese I bought at a Italian specialty market which produces a nice soft crumb. This type of bread cries out to be topped with some sesame seeds which always adds a wonderful finishing touch.

The dough was nice and silky and easy to work with but I probably could have upped the hydration a bit to get a more open crumb. All and all it was a tasty bread perfect for grilling brushed with some olive oil and some nice cheese on top.

Formula

Levain Directions

Mix all the levain ingredients together for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap. I used bottled cherry juice but you could easily substitute it for water. Let it sit at room temperature for around 6-7 hours or until the starter has almost doubled.  I used my proofer set at 76 degrees so it took around 5 hours for me.  Either use in the main dough immediately or refrigerate for up to 1 day before using.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flour and liquids (leave about 50 -70 grams to add after the first mix), together in your mixer or by hand until it just starts to come together, maybe about 1 minute.  Let it rest in your work bowl covered for 20-30 minutes.  After 30 minutes or so  add the salt, starter (cut into about 7-8 pieces), ricotta cheese and remaining water as needed and mix on low for 5 minutes.  Note: If you are using the Ankarsrum mixer like I do, add your water to the bowl first then add in the starter and flours.  After your autolyse add in the salt, ricotta and remaining water and mix on low to medium low for 15-20 minutes.

Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 1.5 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours or if using a proofer set at 80 degrees for one hour.  Remove the dough and shape as desired and cover with a moist tea towel or plastic wrap Sprayed with cooking spray and let rise at room temperature for 1 1/2 – 2 hours.  (I use my proofer set at 80 F and it takes about 1 hour to 1.5 hours).

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 500 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

After 1 minute lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for around 35 minutes or until the breads are nice and brown and have an internal temperature around 200-210 F. 

Take the bread(s) out of the oven when done and let them cool on a bakers rack for as long as you can resist.